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Thread: Monthly Tournament Discussion

  1. #21
    Gym Leader Array BugCatcher6's Avatar
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    That is a lot of info to process and I am going to try and touch on all subjects.

    VGC does not ban previous gens, it bans the not in the Kalos Dex, for now, that will change.

    Which our single gyms ban anything not bred in Kalos, so all previous Gen move tutor moves are not usable.

    There is a small difference there, very small.


    The ban of Swagger, how is it any different then Flatter or Confuse Ray? Because it also adds ATK making confusion damage slightly higher? If you look at that rule, it more to the point stops Swagger + Foul Play + Pranksters. Swagger boost the damage done by Foul Play and has a chance to do extra damage if your opponent attacks themself.


    PokéFarm's tiers have not been updated in years, but it would usually update to match Smogon's.

    I have tried for years to get people to create our own tiers and it never happens. We had a small group before and it did very little. So I would work on tiers myself and the staff would close my threads or delete them stating they have their own tier comity. Which I was a part of. Any suggestions I had was usually overturned by the hard fact of, Smogon says this.

    I have pushed for years that this is PokéFarm not Smogon.

    And once again, I don't hate Smogon, I am a member of their forum, I use a lot of their info, and I battle on Showdown. I dislike aspects of how they do things and ban things just because.

    The VGC rules eliminate the argument of that is not how Smogon does it. Right now the VGC is set up to use the X/Y games and Pokémon related to them. That will change, we had before that we could only use B2/W2 games and content in the VGC. The VGC is just promoting its current game as it has always done.

    VGC doubles is a lot better then the singles and only using 3 Pokémon in singles.


    And the fact that in VGC there is no sleep clause. I hate to say some of this, because I had a member use it on me in the Valor Gym. It is only 1 tactic of many to use. If everything goes right it is effective and if not you lose. It is luck based my like how Swagger is considered luck based.

    Spore is the only move that 100% puts Pokés to sleep. Dark Void puts both opponents to sleep, but has 80% accuracy and only Smeargle can use it right now or an Assist Pokémon, but a Smeargle is still needed.

    And a small FYI, every opponent that has used the Dark Void method on me, has lost.


    What it boils down to is in every tournament I have held in the past, I cannot make everyone happy. And truthfully I don't ever see the monthly tournament idea ever getting out of the discussion phase.

    We don't have a big group of battle trainers here.



    Oh one other thing. The bans by Smogon, Gengar, Kangaskhan, Lucarionite, and Blazikenite don't really matter in the VGC format. Blaziken is not usable yet. And the others are not as effective in doubles. If you see Gengar, you team up on Gengar, If you Kangaskhan, you eliminate the threat. In singles it is very easy for those Pokémon to come in one something it can setup on and then sweep.

    Also I have never seen a Lucario-M used in battle. Fighting types in general I don't see used at all anymore.


    I don't see the tactics I have seen in the X/Y challenge or Showdown used on this forum. When any Smogon rule is removed, like the VGC, you will see people try to take advantage of it, but you never see them sitting as the champion at the end.

    And right now on Showdown and most VGC tournaments, the teams are identical in Pokémon used.


  2. #22
    Pokemon Trainer Student Array sasuke715's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugCatcher6 View Post
    The ban of Swagger, how is it any different then Flatter or Confuse Ray?
    Name one attack that has the same power as foul play being used for flatter. Flatter raises Sp.A not attack, confuse ray just confuses you. Its a VERY uncommon strategy to see flatter used. Foul play and swagger fit hand in hand, so how does it not differ from swag play?

    Quote Originally Posted by BugCatcher6 View Post
    I don't see the tactics I have seen in the X/Y challenge or Showdown used on this forum. When any Smogon rule is removed, like the VGC, you will see people try to take advantage of it, but you never see them sitting as the champion at the end.

    And right now on Showdown and most VGC tournaments, the teams are identical in Pokémon used.
    You just hit the nail. The bold, italics and underline details what you don't see. Have you battled many people on Random Matchups? You will see someone 90% of the time carrying spore amoongus and sporing your team like no tomorrow, using the swag play tactic to catch you off guard, and using mega khan like crazy. You can't expect everyone to use tactics you've seen and apply it to a battle with you. As Ritualxzero stated, VGC will remove certain pokemon from the ban hammer list. No one wants to play against mega khan which is EXTREMELY broken, get trapped with Mega Gengar and have no counters. What have seen on Smogon and X/Y challenge tactic wise, you can't just expect a challenger to use them on you because you like that style of battle. I love 6-6 single battles, why? It gives me more room to breathe and regroup for a great strategy in the end, losing or not.

  3. #23
    Gym Leader Array BugCatcher6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasuke715 View Post
    Name one attack that has the same power as foul play being used for flatter. Flatter raises Sp.A not attack, confuse ray just confuses you. Its a VERY uncommon strategy to see flatter used. Foul play and swagger fit hand in hand, so how does it not differ from swag play?
    I just said that Swagger + Foul Play is the main issue, but however Smogon argues that it is the confusion that causes the problem.


    Quote Originally Posted by sasuke715 View Post
    You just hit the nail. The bold, italics and underline details what you don't see. Have you battled many people on Random Matchups? You will see someone 90% of the time carrying spore amoongus and sporing your team like no tomorrow, using the swag play tactic to catch you off guard, and using mega khan like crazy. You can't expect everyone to use tactics you've seen and apply it to a battle with you. As Ritualxzero stated, VGC will remove certain pokemon from the ban hammer list. No one wants to play against mega khan which is EXTREMELY broken, get trapped with Mega Gengar and have no counters. What have seen on Smogon and X/Y challenge tactic wise, you can't just expect a challenger to use them on you because you like that style of battle. I love 6-6 single battles, why? It gives me more room to breathe and regroup for a great strategy in the end, losing or not.
    Random Matchups don't have the VGC rules.

    I beat Mega Kangaskhan and Mega Gengar. It takes 2 rounds to Spore both opponents to sleep, can Amoongus last 3 attacks? Not that I have seen.

    And as an example, watch these videos from my experience.

    DA2G-WWWW-WWW6-DA59

    93YW-WWWW-WWW6-DA4W

    5V2G-WWWW-WWW5-NUPY


    And we need to get back to discussing monthly tournaments and not opinions about game mechanics.

    My opinion is always going to be that the basic common rules are the only ones needed, Sleep Clause and so on. Banning Pokémon, Moves, and Abilities is just annoying to me.

    However I enjoy the VGC format.


    And I am going to stop there before I start debating opinions.


  4. #24
    Pokemon Trainer Student Array TheNinjaPhoenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugCatcher6 View Post

    And we need to get back to discussing monthly tournaments and not opinions about game mechanics.

    My opinion is always going to be that the basic common rules are the only ones needed, Sleep Clause and so on. Banning Pokémon, Moves, and Abilities is just annoying to me.

    However I enjoy the VGC format.


    And I am going to stop there before I start debating opinions.
    Having read all of the above, sure. Everyone has their own opinions and ideas, but, in the case of a tournament, no one person or two people should have the right to decide on the overall theme of the tournament. It's a group, a.k.a community decision, unless someone hosts/runs it and does not enter. If you don't like the rules, you have two choices. You either adapt to the set rules/theme/etc and partake with the others, or you don't enter. It's that simple.

    Enjoy VGC all you want - I enjoy Single Battle 6vs6 and Triple Battles. That's my opinion. If we did a tournament that was fully based on VGC ruling, sure, I'm game, I'm not going to sit aside.
    This is a signature. Ha.

  5. #25
    Poke Kid Array Ol' Jethro's Avatar
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    nothing should be banned. everything has a counter. If you cant build a team that can take care of most if not all the banned stuff out there, you don't really need to be playing.

  6. #26
    Gym Leader Array BugCatcher6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNinjaPhoenix View Post
    Having read all of the above, sure. Everyone has their own opinions and ideas, but, in the case of a tournament, no one person or two people should have the right to decide on the overall theme of the tournament. It's a group, a.k.a community decision, unless someone hosts/runs it and does not enter. If you don't like the rules, you have two choices. You either adapt to the set rules/theme/etc and partake with the others, or you don't enter. It's that simple.

    Enjoy VGC all you want - I enjoy Single Battle 6vs6 and Triple Battles. That's my opinion. If we did a tournament that was fully based on VGC ruling, sure, I'm game, I'm not going to sit aside.
    Like I said, trying to please everyone has not been my strong suit. Pleasing one person I am not great at either.

    I am trying to find a mix and listing the tournaments ahead of time is my attempt at trying to draw interest and get feedback.


    Right now I think it is turning into more then figuring out monthly tournaments.

    And sadly if we add up the number of people that challenge the gyms, 4 in my gym and I think the same 4 + 1 in the other gyms, so 6 challengers, 3 gym leaders, and 2 members on the fence, leaves us with a total of 11 members battling at some point. 12 if my son decides to pick the game up again.

    Not ideal for tournaments when people are not going to participate in every tournament.


  7. #27
    Poke Kid Array RitualxZero's Avatar
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    I would love to see a rock type battle or lower tier (smogon) pokemons. I'd love to use Golem, Onix and other pokemons that rarely ever see the light of competitive battles<3 just an opinion lol and maybe give the player the option of singles or doubles or something lol flip a coin of something to decide. just thought I'd contribute some more
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  8. #28
    Gym Leader Array BugCatcher6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RitualxZero View Post
    I would love to see a rock type battle or lower tier (smogon) pokemons. I'd love to use Golem, Onix and other pokemons that rarely ever see the light of competitive battles<3 just an opinion lol and maybe give the player the option of singles or doubles or something lol flip a coin of something to decide. just thought I'd contribute some more
    I love the UU and NU Pokémon, not sure how those tiers will change with Gen VI.

    So many Pokémon, I would love to use a Kricketune, but I doubt it could survive.


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